I initially didn’t want to respond but with all the unsolicited e-mail threads coupled with the election just days away I thought I’d “chime in”. (I will steal a line from SNL and say) James and I don’t always agree on everything/anything!!! James has always been very superior at articulating Republican talking points straight from the lawn of the White house.You see James brings up a lot of very good points and excellent scriptural references, but what James realizes (at least I hope he does) but fails to articulate (as well as he has done in these threads) is that this election isn’t about electing the next Pastor of America, but rather the next President of America. Neither of these candidates are perfect, I will even go as far as to say that neither of these candidates are what the teachings in Bible characterize as a strong Christian. I will even go as far as to say that these candidates are far more POLITICIANS than they are Christians. Though I could even go as far as to make a rather intelligent hypothesis based upon scripture and suggest that neither candidate is a true Christian, but that is another topic for another day…I could go on and on about why both candidates are flawed and support anti-God views but that is why I stated earlier that we are electing a President, not a Pastor. My argument would make more sense if I explained it form of a simple rhetorical question. If an opening for CEO was available at the company James works for, and the new CEO-to-be had to be voted in by the employees. If the finalist were me (JF) and (lets say) Warren Buffet, would James vote for me because I am a Bible-believing Christian? The previous rhetorical question isn’t the best example of what I am trying to illustrate, but it is along the same lines.Both candidates are against the Marriage Protection Amendment (which is a proposed amendment to the United States Constitution which would limit marriage in the United States to unions of one man and one woman), they both voted for stem cell research, they both voted in favor of an array of anti-God views. Who knows why they took these stances, was it because their votes were reflective of how they personally felt about those issues or is that they conceded that they had a political obligation to support those views (the reason for a lot of decision POLITICIANS make).Bottom-line, we are voting for politicians not pastors, if we want the Marriage Protection Amendment passed we need the Churches to do their job and not appoint Pastors that make a career out of dodging the messages related to homosexual lifestyle and what the Bible has to say about it. If we want creation taught in schools the Churches have to do their job and not appoint Pastors that make a career out of dodging the six-day creation and what the Bible has to say about it. I’m not looking to a President to ban abortions or same sex marriages (as if this were a Anarchy rather than a Democracy), I’m looking to the Churches to get this nation so much “on fire for God” that we the PEOPLE (the American people that is) put enough pressure on these POLITIANS they will have NO CHOICE but to vote for amendments such as the Marriage Protection Amendment and against stem cell research.This is a Democracy, not an Anarchy, the Churches need to do their job!!!! The Republican Christian Coalition talking points about why Senator Obama suggested that Christians, Muslims, ect serve the same God need to focus on the CHURCH and why Pastor “be nice because the world is nice” Joel Osteen “dropped the ball” on the same type of question that resulted in Obama’s incorrect answer. Obama’s answer was a result of the “tainted” view of Christianity he received from the dishonorable Revered Wright and his (bull crap) Black liberation theology. Thank God I am not voting for either of these candidates based upon their being a “strong Christian” because I would be doomed. On one end we have a Liberal senator that is a product of Black liberation theology, on the other hand we have a senator that promised to run an honorable campaign but then turned his “pit bull with lipstick” loose to ignite wild campaign rallies where attendees heard “utters” of “terrorist” and “kill him”. I don’t know about you but my Bible sure as hell doesn’t support that.So James, in conclusion, I will be voting on November 4th for some of the same reasons Colin Powell so eloquently stated on Meet the Press that he would be voting for Barack Obama. I am not voting based on whether either candidate taught at Sunday school or whether they Pastored a church in Arkansas ten years ago, I am voting for either candidate for their views on ALL the issues that are associated with this election as well as their resolve and demeanor.
Rather than ending this e-mail with a link to the 7 reasons why Obama is not a Christian, I present to you comments from people that have watched these two “Christians” (Gov. Palin and Senator McCain) on the campaign trail and had these very nice things to say about them (of course I am being facetious).
…Yes, I am very troubled by the economy. In fact, I believe we could be heading for a full-scale depression. But what troubles me just as much is the McCain/Palin campaign. Last night I watched the McCain crowd lash out at the media and Obama. Shouting, “Terrorist” and “Kill him”. There is absolutely no place for that in American politics!! That kind of crap may happen in third world countries, but not here, surely not here. What further enraged me is that McCain MADE NO EFFORT TO STOP IT. IN FACT HE PROVOKED IT WITH COMMENTS LIKE “Who is Obama really?”…Sarah Palin is as much of a reformer as Joe is a legit plumber. The entire McCain Campaign is based on FRAUD. McCain will have only his own ineptitude to blame.
…In listening to excerpts of her speech making the six-degrees-of-separation argument against Obama with Ayers she labels Obama a “terrorist” to which you hear “Kill Him” shouted by members of the audience. It sounds like she is insighting a “lynching” — there I said it. I am 61 and white and lived through three historical events I hope never ever happen again. I find Palin’s tactics almost criminal….what happened to McCain “the maverick”? …the one who promised a respectful campaign!!!…You know the funny thing about Joe “the plumber” is that he was trumped up on a lie just like every attack the McCain/ Palin ticket has had to offer. Just another word on something spoken earlier today, not all evangelicals bite into the “Foolish Farms Turkeys” the McCain campaign has to offer. There are a lot of us that agree with Obama. …just because someone claims to be a church going person does not make them a great candidate, take Bush for example…Did Joe the plumber helper ever get his tickets and back taxes squared away? The closer it gets to Nov. 4th, the nastier McCains ‘pit bull with lipstick’ gets. What happened to McCain’s promise to run an honorable campaign based on issues? Guess that was only if he was ahead in the polls…Bad news: McCain called him “that one” Good news: He didn’t call him “that boy” Bad news: we suffered through Papa Bush then suffered through Baby Bush. Good news: looks like we won’t have to suffer through Grampa Bush.
Good points JF, especially about the Church; however, I would like my President to desire to please God more than me or himself or anyone else. Aligning Christianity with a political party is a slippery slope and a mistake in my opinion. As I once read or heard, if non-Christians want to kill themselves and their babies the Christian percentage of the population should be increasing and can vote for their policies. Unfortunately, Christians are killing their babies at the same rate and looking very much like the world.
This country is in need of a revival! Pray for our next President as God will use whomever to accomplish His will.
Sinner saved by Faith
As I read Ken Ham’s blog today entitled “Who should we vote for?” I thought that it would make an excellent preamble to my response, so I have decided to include it below:
1. First of all, as a Christian, I recognized that I needed to seek God’s direction, just as the apostle Peter and others did in Acts 1:24: “And they prayed and said, ‘You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen.'” So I now pray today: “Lord, please guide me as I take seriously this great responsibility to vote.”
2. Second, we need to remember God’s lesson to Samuel. It is not about how impressive a person is on the “outside”-it’s what is on the “inside” that counts! I was also reminded of Matthew 12:34: “For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks,” and how important it is that “your word I have hidden in my heart, that I might not sin against You” (Psalm 119:11). So I recognized that as we consider candidates, we cannot see their hearts. Christians must evaluate them by their actions and words-judging those actions against the absolute authority of the Word of God.
3. Third, we need leaders who are wise and knowledgeable. How do we determine that? God’s Word tells us that: “The fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom” (Psalm 111:10) and also: “The fear of the lord is the beginning of knowledge” (Proverbs 1:7). Do they exhibit a reverence for the Lord and His Word?
4. Fourth, and probably the most applicable to each of us on a personal level, I should not consider someone’s policies in light of what might benefit me materially. After all, the Scripture tells us: “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also” (Matthew 6:19-21).
Now JF. insinuates that we should not look at these candidates as if we were choosing a pastor but rather as choosing a president. I would completely and utterly disagree with this suggestion for many reasons, but allow me to highlight one in particular. Ken Ham’s third point is very important. We all seek a president who is wise, but our Creator and Savior informs us that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. This means that it doesn’t matter that you graduated from Harvard Law, or that you are articulate, or even that your ideas sound better that the next guy (obviously this isn’t the case with Obama), rather we are told that true wisdom is found in the man who fears God and trembles at his word. This is the most important qualification for any presidential candidate. Period! While it is true that McCain has significant flaws in his attempt to meet this biblical madate, his shortcomings pale significantly in comparison to Obama’s. Does Obama tremble at God’s word? NO.
- In fact, Obama thinks Jesus is a liar because Jesus had the audacity to claim that he was the only way to eternal life.
- Obama seeks to redefine the definition of marriage that God has defined in scripture (by supporting the repeal of the DOMA) and destroy the first institution that God created, namely, the family. People seem to forget that God judges entire nations based upon the actions of it’s leader(s)
- God says in Malachi 2:15 that the purpose of marriage is to raise godly children. Obama thinks that encouraging sex-ed, alternative lifestyle education and programs that undermine biblical abstinence education in our children’s educational curriculum is how to raise godly children.
- Obama seeks to strengthen the homosexuality movement in America by supporting a bill to give federal civil rights protection based on sexual orientation and “gender identity” and supporting a federal hate crimes law that includes protections based on sexual orientation and “gender identity.” This way, churches are open to persecution for proclaiming Gods’ word regarding the aberrant abomination that is homosexuality. In demonstrating his “respect” for God and His word, Obama calls God’s teaching on homosexuality “obscure” and “homophobic”.
- Obama voted to support transporting minors across state lines in order to circumvent state laws that require parental notification before minors obtain an abortion. Consequently, he demonstrates his disdain for God’s commandments regarding parental obedience and child sacrifice.
- God ordered the complete massacre (including all women and children) of the inhabitants who occupied the city of Jericho partly because these parents offered up their children to the god Molech by fire. Obama wants to ensure that we (America) get what is coming to us (in the way of judgement from God) by ignoring the lessons learned and indulging “a woman’s right to choose,”? Obama’s complete and utter disdain for God’s commandment allows him to even vote against protecting the lives of children who are born alive and survive a botched abortion! Where is the fear of God?
- How can we say that Obama fears God when he doesn’t hold to the inerrancy of scripture and defames God by accusing Him of supporting slavery. According to Obama, God’s dietary laws for the Jews are unsuitable for public policy.
- Our nation purposefully included God in it’s foundation demonstrating the fear that we had for God’s way. Notwithstanding, Obama is working hard to support a baseless concept of the separation between church and state by refusing to support the continuation of the Faith Based Initiative (on the federal level) to guarantee the right of religious social service providers access to federal programs on an equal basis. He prefers to give these funds to groups like ACORN instead of churches and para-church organizations.
I recently asked a friend of mine to point out any area pertaining to moral political issues where he felt the Democrats were more in line with the Bible. He responded by saying that the Democrats apparent support for an increase in minimum wage placed them more in line with scripture than the GOP. Now, let us just think about this for a second, where in scripture does God inform us that it is the governments job to regulate equity in wages? I mean, I know that scripture says “the laborer is worthy of his pay” but does scripture suggest that the government enforce how much this pay should be? How is increasing minimum wage more in line with scripture? If someone know the answer to this question, I’m all ears!
JB said that aligning Christianity with a political party is a mistake; but no one is suggesting that we do this, rather, as Christians we look at all political parties to see which one cares more about God’s Law and then we vote for that party as a show of deference to His concerns and not ours. This decision is easier for Christians that have a zeal for keeping God’s commandments and trembling at Gods word. I suspect that conversely the decision is harder for Christians that think other issues are more important than demonstrating a healthy fear for God and His word. I know that some folks are upset because Christian morality is more often attributed to the Republican party while godlessness and reproach goes to the Democrats. Is there any wonder why when you look at where these parties collectively fall on issues pertaining to godliness? Please see the scorecard at the following URL for a demonstration of what I mean (http://downloads.frcaction.org/EF/EF06J03.pdf). You will clearly find that the majority of democratic senators and congressmen vote in an ungodly manner most of the time while the opposite is true for Republicans. Please use this guide also when looking at who to support in the local elections.
The Dispelling myths and identifying “Straw Men” section
- JF. erects some false dichotomies. In particular, Christian qualifications vs. presidential occupational qualifications; above I have demonstrated why these are essentially the same. Another false dichotomy is manufactured by pitting the presidents responsibilities against the churches responsibilities as if there did not exist a huge and fundamental overlap between the two. The only true dichotomy that exist is God’s issues vs. man’s issues Many people have identified or manufactured issues that resonate with themselves and given these issues more preeminence than the issues that God has specifically called out.(i.e. Increasing minimum wage is not a God issue, but hands that shed innocent blood (abortion) is a God issue, a heart that deviseth wicked imagination (homosexuality) is a God issue etc).
- The claim that many people (at a McCain/Palin rally) were yelling “terrorist” and “kill him” was discredited along time ago. Please make sure that you research these things before throwing them out in an email.
- The converse of democracy is not anarchy. That a president who is elected and empowered by the people may choose to help ban abortions and homosexual marriage is very much in-line with democracy.
- That Sen McCain is “fundamentally” against the protecting the institution of Marriage is false. Sen McCain pledged to veto any bill that would weaken any provision of the federal DOMA and said if any of the following conditions occurred he would support DOMA:
a) if one or several state supreme courts require their state to recognize same-sex “marriages” from another state
b) if the U.S. Supreme Court requires states to recognize same-sex “marriages” from another state (thus overturning a provision of the federal Defense of Marriage Act)
c) if the U.S. Supreme Court requires the federal government to recognize same-sex “marriages” and/or partnerships for any purpose under federal law (thus overturning a provision of the federal Defense of Marriage Act)
d) if the U.S. Supreme Court rules that same-sex “marriage” is a right under the U.S. Constitution
In fact, for an example of Sen McCain supporting marriage please see the following link of actual senate voting records (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=104&session=2&vote=00280) You will see that the only senators to oppose this bill were all democrats.
- I challenge John F. to produce the “array of anti-God views” that McCain supposedly supports. Beside what was already mentioned (stem cell research and DOMA), I think that you fill find that this claim really only applies to Sen. Obama and Sen. Biden.
- The apparent underlying motivation behind Collin Powell’s Obama endorsement (not wishing to injure Mr. Powell’s reputation by suggesting that he was fishing for a job) was his “difficulty with two more conservative appointments to the Supreme Court…that…we’d be looking at in a McCain administration.” So Mr. Powell prefers liberal activist judges. Shocker that he would side with Obama.
- A common mistake made by Christians is to assume that we should advocate the teaching of creationism in public schools. There is no reason to believe that public school teachers would know how to properly divide the words of truth to their students as the teachers themselves would probably misrepresent the propositions in Genesis. What Christians should support is the critical examination of the farce that is Darwinian evolution (please do not confuse this with natural selection which incidentally is congruent with scripture).